We all know that nature can be healing, but sometimes it’s not just as easy as going outside.
On this week’s episode of the Peak Northwest podcast, we spoke with Zoë Presley, a Portland-based psychotherapist and forest therapy guide, to help us understand how best to find healing in the great outdoors.
With the ongoing coronavirus pandemic, political unrest and economic stress, there are a lot of good reasons to seek refuge in nature right now. And while outdoor recreation can be great for physical health, going outside can also help heal trauma, depression, anxiety and other mental or emotional health issues.
Accessing that kind of healing sometimes requires a completely different approach to spending time outside. Fortunately, there are plenty of places around the Pacific Northwest to practice.
Here are some highlights from this week’s show:
- Finding healing in nature requires coming in with the right intention, slowing down and being in the moment.
- You don’t need an extraordinary view to experience awe in nature.
- Forest therapy is a specific approach to finding healing in nature that’s helpful for many people.
- Healing through nature can be even more important during the coronavirus pandemic.
- “Forest bathing,” which doesn’t require going to a forest.
Read Jamie’s previous story about finding healing in nature at home during the pandemic.
Learn more about forest therapy online, and visit Zoë Presley’s website for more information on her practice.
You can subscribe to Peak Northwest on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or anywhere you listen to podcasts.
Follow Peak Northwest on Instagram at @PeakNorthwest.
Episode transcript
This is a rush transcript produced primarily through voice-to-text software. It may contain inaccuracies and may be updated or revised. Time notations are approximate.
Jamie Hale: [00:00:00] Hello, hello! Welcome back to Peak Northwest, an outdoors and travel podcast by The Oregonian/OregonLive dedicated to the adventure and exploration of our beautiful Pacific Northwest. I’m Jamie Hale.
Jim Ryan: [00:00:16] And I’m Jim Ryan. And together, we take you to some of the most beautiful and interesting destinations in our region discussing where to go, what to do and places to see.
And today, we’re talking about how to find healing while you’re out there in nature.
Jamie Hale: [00:00:32] Yeah. Jim, you know, a lot of people talk about how nature is healing and about feeling rejuvenated after a hike or a day at the beach. But I feel like what’s often missing from that conversation is how to find that healing in the first place.
To a certain degree. It’s, it’s this like this natural process that we go through without very much thought. But as we’re going to talk about today, there are often some barriers to truly opening ourselves up and accessing the healing properties that nature oftentimes offers us.
Jim Ryan: [00:01:02] Yeah. In recent years, you know, there’s been a lot of talk about, you know, forest bathing which is a translation of a Japanese practice.
And forgive me if I slightly say it wrong here, but shinrin-yoku, and that practice has been used in a new therapeutic technique called forest therapy which is essentially a kind of psychotherapy done outdoors. And to tell us a little bit more about what that all means and how it can help folks, we actually have today with us, a Portland based psychotherapist and forest therapy guide, Zoë Presley. Zoë, thanks so much for coming on the show.
Zoë Presley: [00:01:40] Thanks for having me.
Jim Ryan: [00:01:41] Of course, excited to have you on here. So, I gave kind of my cursory understanding of all of this. And it’s very surface level. This is obviously your area of expertise.
What is forest therapy? And is it the same thing as kind of forest bathing? That term we’ve heard tossed around a little bit.
Zoë Presley: [00:02:01] So it’s similar. The term forest bathing is a translation. From the Japanese shinrin-yoku, what you mentioned earlier, and that refers to bathing in the forest atmosphere or taking in the forest through our senses.
So it’s sort of a poetic take. It’s, it’s really simply the experience of being in and connecting with the natural world. Whereas forest therapy is considered putting into practice forest bathing as a nature-based intervention. So forest therapy is generally and guided experience. That’s facilitated by a certified practitioner.
But it can also relate to ecotherapy, which refers to techniques or treatments that engage an individual’s relationship with nature to improve mental or physical health. So you, you mentioned earlier mental health, but it can also relate to our physical wellbeing.
Jamie Hale: [00:02:57] Zoë, a lot of us have experienced this being outside in nature and feeling that that sort of, that healing energy to it.
But how do you recommend people go about beginning to access some of that healing while they’re outside?
Zoë Presley: [00:03:11] Forest bathing, forest therapy, they’re intentional practices. And healing is much more likely to occur when we access our willingness to be touched by something greater than ourselves. So most of the time we go about our day we’re in our own heads, we’re doing tasks and getting things done.
This is more of being intentional to enter into a space for healing. I also recommend putting away devices, which although they can help us in so many ways in our life, they can also distract us from being fully present, especially with our sensory experiences.
And I also recommend that folks move slowly so you have time to focus your intention on the minutia of surroundings. You know, sometimes our attention is captivated by significant things or, you know, encounters with animals or incredible this does. But if we move slowly, there’s more opportunity to notice the smaller things happening. And also being quiet so that the sounds of their own voice and body movements are less likely to drown out that sounds of nature.
And also lastly, to notice how your mind and your body and your feelings are responding or responding moment by moment, to be perceptive to the subtle shifts in how you feel. Because you know, healing happens often subtly. We might notice just a change in the way that our body feels or a subtle change in our mood.
And if we’re not paying attention to those subtle changes, we might not even realize that healing is happening.
Jamie Hale: [00:04:58] I really love what you said there about slowing down about turning off the devices, you know, taking out the headphones. I think that’s, that’s something that’s really difficult for a lot of us people, you know, we want to accomplish something on a hike.
We want to get to the end as fast as we can or be a personal record or, you know, treat it kind of like a workout in a gym. But it seems like that can really be a barrier to opening up and accessing some of those healing properties of nature. I’m wondering, Zoë, what are some of these other barriers that might block people from accessing some of that healing while they’re out there?
Zoë Presley: [00:05:36] I think it can be scary sometimes, you know, scary to have to, to be paying attention. And, you know, to our body, to our feelings, to our surroundings, we are a culture that’s habituated towards distraction. So it can, it can feel overwhelming to, to really slow down our attention and really focus on what’s happening.
I also think that social and cultural programming may cause us to feel skeptical about this kind of practice or even embarrassed about slowing down. We can become self-conscious if we are engaging in a different way than the people around us. And also. Fear and uncertainty can arise when we’re just trying something new.
You know, we’re used to engaging in certain ways with the outdoors, primarily through exercise. And so being outdoors in a different way can feel overwhelming at times. So I think it’s important to keep in mind that all of that is normal, that it’s OK for it to feel awkward or strange or even embarrassing.
It’s OK to have skepticism about it. All of that is completely normal and the proof is really in the pudding. You know, how do you feel afterwards? Do you, do you sense subtle shifts? Do you feel more grounded and more peaceful in yourself? Is your mind racing, less all of these cues help us know on a personal level, if something’s really happening.
Jim Ryan: [00:07:05] And we’re all familiar, you know, talking about some of these same themes with kind of the awe that you get when you, you know, poke out of the forest and you see the sweeping view in front of you, or when you take your, your first steps around a bend and see kind of that sunset out in the distance, whatever it may be.
There’s a different kind of awe though that you can find in a quieter, less dramatic place. And I’m wondering if you can kind of let us in on what that looks like for you.
Zoë Presley: [00:07:35] Absolutely. You know, awe can happen in the most unexpected ways when, when we simply to slow down or stop, we often see things in a completely different light.
And I’ll, I’ll just share a couple of my personal experiences of, of moving so slowly that I noticed things in a different way. And one was a recent experience of noticing a leaf hanging from a single strand of a spiderweb and watching it twirl around in the wind. Which is something that is so in consequential that most of us, if we’re, if we’re not moving slowly might just sort of walk past.
But if we really slow down and pay attention, it’s really remarkable to consider the strength of a single strand of spiderweb and how it can, how it can hold a leaf and to watch the leaf blowing around in the wind as, as I did, and even feel that same sensation in my body to relate to the leaf, to feel how the wind was blowing my body around.
It created a sense of connection with the natural world that I found personally, really peaceful and grounding and lovely. And while it’s a different kind of awe than we might get from, you know, standing on the edge of the cliff that the Oregon coast or, you know, being on the top of the mountain, it’s, it’s the awe of connection.
It’s the awe of simplicity. It’s the awe of simple beauty. And I think those kinds of experiences are very much as powerful as the extraordinary experiences we have in the natural world, too.
Jamie Hale: [00:09:16] I love that. I think that that’s such a great thing to, to keep in mind and a great way to, to connect with nature.
You know, I feel like a lot of times I’m walking through a forest in particular, and it’s such this interconnected ecosystem where the trees are connected to the mushrooms are connected to the animals and everything around you. And when we’re able to slow down, we can kind of make ourselves a piece of that connection.
And when we can connect to the forest too, all of a sudden, I feel like my eyes are just open to this whole other experience that I’m missing walking right through it. You know, you just focus on the trail, you focus on the end of it or the waterfall at the end. And you totally forget about this whole interconnected system of life all around you.
So I think if it feels really good, I think to be a part of that connection too.
Zoë Presley: [00:10:03] Absolutely. Yeah. And especially at this time, when so many of us are feeling so disconnected, disconnected from one another, disconnected from life, disconnected from the things that bring us comfort and joy, to experience connection in a different way is actually really profound as well as healing and helpful for our physical wellbeing and our emotional wellbeing.
I think that’s a really good point.
Jim Ryan: [00:10:32] See, I mean, you hit the nail on the head there right now, a lot of folks that are going through you know, at once we have this shared experience of the pandemic and how it affects all of us, but folks are also going through uniquely individual challenging circumstances because of that pandemic or because of other things I’m curious, you know, if you can give us some examples of the kinds of healing processes you’ve helped folks through through this, this kind of therapy.
Zoë Presley: [00:11:00] Sure. You know, I, I love a story of a, of a man I worked with a couple of years ago on a forest therapy walk and he was among a group of participants. And he had mentioned that he had military background and stated simply that his wife had dragged him along. He was skeptical about it, but he was there because his wife wanted him to come.
And at the end of the walk there, there was time for each one of us to share about our experiences and this particular individual shared his amazement about how good he felt, saying that he couldn’t remember the last time he felt that relaxed. And I could see it on his face. It wasn’t just something he was saying to make his wife feel better, or, you know, to make me feel better that this was it was a profound shift for him, and one that was really unexpected.
You know, sometimes we are hoping for our healing experiences to be extraordinary. You know, on, on a, on a large scale, some big change. But often I think that some of the most deeply healing experiences are the ones where we simply have a shift in the way that we think about something.
Something that we didn’t think was possible for ourselves to feel or to do or to experience all of a sudden becomes very real and very possible, and that can have a ripple effect on so many areas of life. You know, in a different experience I had with an individual who was feeling a lot of grief related to multiple losses in her life and on a particular forest bathing walk, she was able to release her grief into the trees, into the forest.
And she shared that she experienced an actual movement of energy. You know, the energy of the grief that had, that was being held in her body and the tightness of her muscles shifted as she was able to release that grief into the woods, which she thought was accepting and nurturing of her. And so, again, these are subtle, but also very powerful shifts that happen in the way that we feel in the way that we think and the way that we walk through life.
And, you know, that’s mostly the kind of healing that I’ve experienced with folks doing this kind of work.
Jamie Hale: [00:13:23] Gosh, I love that. I love that you’ve been able to help these people and that people have been able to find those paths for their healing processes in nature. So we want to talk to you some more about forest therapy and how we can find healing, especially right now during the coronavirus pandemic.
But first we’re going to take a short break.
OK. We are back talking to Zoë Presley about forest therapy and finding healing in nature. You know, Zoë, as we’ve been talking to you, I, I feel like I’ve been transported to like a mossy winter forest and just like surrounded by all of this life. And I feel like that’s one of the great things about hiking especially in a forest or other kinds of ecosystems, just being sort of held by and surrounded by all of these different life forms.
And it strikes me that right now during this pandemic, when a lot of us have felt so isolated and so alone, It can be really nice to open up and be held by these other life forms in nature. So I’m wondering if you could talk a little bit more about, you know, looking ahead to 2021 as people kind of shift out of maybe being in survival mode and start looking to doing some of the healing from what’s, I think, quite frankly, been a traumatic year for a lot of people, you know, how does forest therapy help people specifically with some of the things we’ve been going through over the last year?
Zoë Presley: [00:14:55] Yeah, absolutely. So one of the things that I’ve been thinking about is how, as a culture, we are habituated towards rushing, being stressed out, continually moving, and this pandemic has forced so many of us to stay put, and then in some cases slowed down, but not out of choice.
And, you know, there’s been a lot of statistics coming out about depression and anxiety being on the rise over this year. And as the pandemic, you know, there’s a, there’s a light ahead, but you know, the pandemic is still going to continue into 2021. And I think part of what forest bathing offers is an element of choice in slowing down.
Rather than focusing on the limitations that that pandemic has been imposing on our lives, we can choose to enter into a space of stillness and seek these moments that we’ve been talking about. Awe, inspiration and calm. And so I think there’s something intrinsically empowering about choosing to slow down or stop versus feeling like we have no choice or we’re being told or being imprisoned in our circumstances.
I think also forest bathing is an activity that just easily complies with the safety measures recommended by our public health officials. It doesn’t require being in close proximity to others, but it can happen in groups.
It’s adaptable for any season, as long as participants are dressed accordingly. And while it can be helpful to have a guide to support the process of staying connected to the natural world, most of the activities can be easily self facilitated, and there’s a number of resources online. If, if someone were to just Google forest bathing activities or practices, you could find a lot of suggestions.
There are books that can help a person. You know, get inspiration for different things to try. But again, I think that forest bathing can be a powerful activity to help us re-emerge in many cases from, you know, the depression, from the sadness, from the isolation. And remember that we are connected, even when we don’t feel like that’s the case.
Jim Ryan: [00:17:19] And, you know, like you touched on Zoë, the pandemic has forced a lot of people to stay close to home. And, you know, I really like what you said about choosing to slow down rather than simply just being forced to stay there. But do you have some advice for people who want to go find some healing time in nature that is simply close by?
Zoë Presley: [00:17:43] Absolutely. Yeah. So, you know, the name might indicate otherwise, but forest bathing actually doesn’t require a forest at all. Forest bathing because it’s primarily a sensory activity that involves intention and mindful connection can happen with a houseplant. It can happen with a pet. It can happen with any living thing or, or even a rock.
That any, anything that is derived from the natural environment can create an opportunity for connection, for stillness, for having a sensory experience. And so we can have a forest bathing experience in our living room, you know, certainly on our, on our, in our backyard on a a balcony of an apartmen . It can happen literally anywhere.
And so that point, I think, is really important to remember that while it can be nice to go out into nature, to visit a park or natural area, we can have really profound experiences of noticing how our body feels, noticing aspects of other living things, just, you know, even within our own homes.
Jim Ryan: [00:18:57] And, you know, that said, Zoë, do you have any favorite places to go, you know, close into Portland that you find, especially rejuvenating?
Zoë Presley: [00:19:07] For me personally, it’s really more about the mindset than the particular place.
I have found really deep moments of joy and connection and in city parks, out at the beach , and Forest Park, certainly, but I feel like, you know, I have been in exquisitely, beautiful places. And if my mindset has not been in alignment with forest bathing and mindful awareness, then I’ve missed out. What’s happening, what’s happening to me, what’s happening around me. So I personally feel like it has a lot less to do with where I am, then my intention to be present and to focus on what is in my immediate environment.
Jamie Hale: [00:19:59] I love that. That’s that’s I think a great reminder for all of us. Whether we’re, you know, headed out to Crater Lake or climbing mountains, or just walking around our backyard or our neighborhood, or like you said, out to Forest Park, there’s so many places to go, but the intention, our mindset is the important thing.
Zoë before we let you go, is there anything else you wanted to offer in terms of advice to people who maybe want to try this out and get started in finding that more of that healing place with them as they go out into nature?
Zoë Presley: [00:20:33] I would recommend that people do try to experiment with a variety of different environments to connect with.
So you might start in your own backyard or with a houseplant. Then you might go to a different environment, you know, with the intention to similarly connect and see how it feels differently in, in your body in your mood. In your mind I think it can be really helpful to just notice even very subtle shifts and subtle changes in how your, your, the, the combination of your environment and your mindset create that experience for you.
Jamie Hale: [00:21:17] That’s perfect. So we thank you so much for coming on and talking with us today. And for anyone who wants to learn more about Zoë's practice or about forest therapy, we will throw some links in our show notes. You can find Zoë's website at zoepresley.com. Zoë, thank you so much for coming nine today.
Zoë Presley: [00:21:35] Thank you so much for having me.
Jim Ryan: [00:21:37] Well, Jamie, that was a lovely conversation. I have to say at the end of this interview, I do feel. Much more relaxed than maybe normal after doing one of these podcasts. Not that you know, you put me on edge or anything, Jamie, but Zoë just brought a particularly calming presence to the show.
Jamie Hale: [00:21:57] Yeah, it’s, it’s funny. Cause like I’m, I’m still sitting here in my closet. And yet I still like, I, I can close my eyes and feel like I am surrounded by a forest just talking about it with her. And I love what she’s saying about bringing that intention to it and just going out there with the intention of not like I’m going to bust through these, you know, six miles or whatever, but just going out there just to wander and slow down and crouch down and take a look at that little mushroom or, oh, look at this tree, how it’s fallen. I love doing that. And like I said, and especially in forests, cause you can really get a sense of like, Oh, you can see this tree has fallen and what it’s up rooted and how everything has sort of come together and works around that.
And you just get a sense that you’re a part of that forest and a part of that ecosystem. And I love that. I think that’s that opening up is a big part to beginning to accept that healing, that nature sort of naturally provides.
Jim Ryan: [00:22:53] I think, I mean, she kept coming back to intention, going out into the forest or going out into whatever landscape you’re going out into with intention.
And so much of the time speaking personally, my intention is to get somewhere, do something, you know, I’m out there for a very specific reason and it would be intriguing to more intentionally switch things up and make my reason for going outside a specifically relaxing experience, I think.
Jamie Hale: [00:23:26] Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Just making that, make that one of your reasons you go out, you know, instead of it’s like exercise or I want to get out and see some cool stuff or I want to go out and like heal because it’s been a really hard year or whatever your case may be. One of the things that struck me too, that she said was about not feeling embarrassed about doing things differently than other people outside.
And I feel like that’s something that like, I’ve had a hard time with. Sometimes I come across like this really cool tree and I just want to like lay my hands on it and close my eyes for a minute. But then I start getting like nervous that people are going to round the corner and look at me funny. You know, and that’s, for me, that’s like a really hard barrier to get through, but I think there’s also something too about when we see people out there doing things differently to not kind of look at them sideways and to appreciate that. It kind of goes both ways, you know, not to look at someone and be like, Oh, look at that tree hugger out there.
Maybe that’s just my own internal judgment against myself. I don’t know. But you know, just sort of accepting that there’s a lot of different ways to be out in nature. And it’s not just about the people with the trekking poles going as fast as they can or climbing this or doing that, that it can really be a different experience.
And there’s all kinds of different ways that people can go out there and appreciate it.
Jim Ryan: [00:24:37] Yeah. The, the reason that you go out doesn’t have to be the same reason I do, or my brother does, or, you know, so on and so forth. One great thing about going outside is that everyone can take away something different or seek something different in the first place.
And I’ll say even when I’m going out and searching or trying to do a specific objective in the outdoors, still finding the head space to slow down and appreciate along the way, be mindful of where you are, make sure that you’re really taking in that vista or noticing, you know, the, the beautiful sites along your path.
It’s just a reminder, I guess, that that’s important too. And getting to the top or doing the whole trail or whatever it may be. You know, appreciate the whole experience, not just the end result.
Jamie Hale: [00:25:28] Exactly Jim, I don’t know about you, but I am like really looking forward to going out and hiking next time and really making sure to be intentional.
I think it’s going to be one of my goals for hiking out this winter. Cause it’s not really a great time to do a lot of like exercise type hiking anyway. So maybe it’s a really good time right now to slow down and have some that intention, like Zoë said.
Jim Ryan: [00:25:48] All right, my man, well, slow it down and report back to us on how it goes.
But until then, folks, you can watch our videos on the Oregonian’s YouTube channel. Follow us on Instagram @peaknorthwest. View all of our travel and outdoors coverage on oregonlive.com/travel. Please leave us a rating or review if you enjoy the show. And if you want to support this podcast and our local journalism, please consider a subscription to OregonLive. You can find details, of course, at oregonlive.com/podsupport. This episode of the show is produced by me, Jim Ryan, alongside at Jamie Hale and Elliot Njus.
Jamie Hale: [00:26:28] Stay safe and happy travels everyone! Until next time, we leave you with this 10 seconds of zen.
-- Jim Ryan and Jamie Hale